Entertainment’s golden boy Hasan Minhaj is pioneering a new era in the world of comedy. He sits down with comedian, actress, podcaster, and overall badass Phoebe Robinson to chat about changing the game—for good.

Oh yeah, I auditioned for four years, and then one year they refused to see me. After five years of the answer being no, I was like, I’m done. Like, they’re not interested; it’s fine. But it took me a long time to be OK with it because I felt like my career wouldn’t take off if I didn’t get it. Then I said to myself, “I can allow this festival to define the rest of my career, or I can figure out how to make my career outside of someone saying yes or no to me.”

Yeah. For me, I did it seven years in a row.

Oh my gosh.

And by the time I got it, it didn’t even matter anymore. But the thing I’m disappointed in is that I had a Murphy’s Law mentality about it. I was like, “This show’s gonna suck; it’s gonna be a seven o’clock show; I’m gonna go up first; the audience is gonna be all industry; I’m gonna tank; no one’s gonna like my material.” And that’s exactly what hap- pened!

Seriously?!

Yeah! I tanked it! People always say, “You’re so cheery!” But there have been so many times in my life when I’ve chickened out. That’s why I’m most proud of the times I said, “No, fuck that. I’m going for it.” Like when I graduated high school, my dream was to go to UCLA, and I got in! I did the campus tour, and it was everything I’d dreamed of. It was beautiful, the weather was amazing—it wasn’t 118 degrees like it is in Sacramento. But I chickened out. I was like, “This is nothing like the town I grew up in. Will I fit in?” I got scared and decided to go to UC Davis, the college in the town I grew up in.

Wow! Looking back, do you regret it? I mean, did you even have the awareness that you were chickening out, or were you lying to your- self about wanting to go to UC Davis?

Yeah, I was lying to myself: “No, no, no, it’s better. You’ll save money living at home; you’ll get a better GPA.” I completely lied to myself. In the end, I met my wife there and everything worked out great, but what I distinctly remember was having that fatalistic mentality instead of just being optimistic, like, “It’s gonna be scary, but you’ll figure it out. Believe in yourself.” That’s how I’ve tried to approach life since.

OK, let’s switch gears and get a little less “What is the meaning of life—”

[Laughs] Wait! Why are we both into this optimistic, carpe diem, self-help stuff? I think that’s the bigger thing. What hugs did we not receive as children...?

[Laughs] I’m a workaholic through and through and can be really tough on myself. There’s a point where being hard on yourself can be a good motivator, make you want to deliver quality or whatever. And then there’s a point where you’re mentally abusing yourself.

Yeah. You know what’s crazy—I’ve also realized this as I’ve gotten older—is that no one really cares, so don’t worry. You know what I mean?

Yassss! OK, I want to talk about your Netflix show. It’s revolutionary. There’s never been someone who’s looked like you, hosting their own weekly series like this. I don’t want to get into like [mocking voice], “You’re a person of color, do you feel a lot of pressure?” I don’t think that’s the right question, but I do wonder: Do you feel that because there are so many shows coming out starring people of color or queer people, that this is the new normal? Or do you think it’s a trend?

I one hundred thousand percent believe it’s the new normal. It’s been so cool to see that not only are these new voices working, but they’re objectively awesome. They’re winning awards, setting the precedent of excellence. So it’s not “Oh, it’s the token show; we threw them a bone.” This show happened, it’s incredibly groundbreaking, and it’s winning Emmys and Oscars. That has been super inspiring to me. [When I was] growing up in the ’90s, success in show business looked a very specific way. I’m sure you felt that way too.

Yeah.

It’s so dope to see you, Abbi [Jacobson], Ilana [Glazer]—all my friends becoming really successful. It looks like so many different things now, which is awesome.

It is awesome. You were a breakout star on The Daily Show, and certainly the White House Correspondents’ Dinner made you even more next-level. What made you feel it was time to step fully in front of the camera as host of your own show and be responsible for every W[in] as well as every L[oss]?

The Daily Show felt like my comedy undergrad. Jon [Stewart] and Trevor [Noah] and everybody at that show taught me how to look at the news, break it down, and establish a comedic take. But obviously there is a limitation to mediums, being a correspondent. You’re coming in on the tail end of an act and providing commentary. One of the things I really wanted to explore with Homecoming King was: Can I narratively story-tell using comedy, audio, visuals, screens—all these mediums? That was really exciting, and it worked!

Netflix approached me. I remember having this conversation with Jon when he left [The Daily Show]. He very candidly said, “I’m leaving because I’ve manipulated these chess pieces in as many different directions as I could over the last 17 years, and now I’m opening it up to you guys to see where you can take it.” Politically, people who share my background—immigrants to America, children of immigrants, Muslim Americans—so many people of minority groups have either been spoken to or spoken for. I don’t think my perspective on the world has really been heard.

Absolutely.

Having this voice in a political and cultural show is powerful. I want to reclaim what it means to be a patriotic American, so the show is called Patriot Act with Hasan Minhaj. The Patriot Act is actually a piece of legislation that was passed during the Bush administration to spy—legally spy—on Muslim Americans. It was given a patriotic title to make Americans feel like we were being kept safe. I really wanted to subvert that meaning and do deep-dive, investigative headline pieces that re- interpret what it means to be a patriotic American. We’re looking at affirmative action and voter suppression, but cultural issues too, like international elections.